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nicnben
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: dimanche 4 septembre 2016 08:28


Inscrit le: 27/02/2011
Messages: 74
Bonjour

Je recherche les ascendants de John BARKER né le 12 novembre 1867 à Nottingham et dcd en 1920. Il avait épousé une irlandaise Catherine DOHERTY. Son fichier militaire dit que son père s'appelait Samuel BARKER mais je n'ai pas d'autre renseignement.

Peut-être avant vous une piste.

Merci d'avance

Francois
Genealogie49
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: dimanche 4 septembre 2016 14:15


Inscrit le: 06/04/2016
Messages: 90
Hi Francois
(Sorry as I can read French, but cannot write it very well)

Are you sure that the birth date is correct as every census indicates that he was born late 1868 or early 1869? Or is something else wrong?

I think the story is something as follows:

John Barker b abt 1868/9 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire
X 11-05-1890 Tipperary
Catherine Doherty b abt 1871/2 Tipperary, Ireland
-
children? (there could be more)
John Barker b abt 1890/1Kinsale, County Cork, Ireland
Leonard Barker b abt 1892/3 County Limerick, Ireland
Annie Barker b abt 1896/7 Aldershot, Hampshire
Evelyn Barker b abt 1906/7 Balderton, Nottinghamshire
George Barker b abt 1910/11 Balderton, Nottinghamshire

Parents?:
Samuel Barker
X Quarter#1 1868 Newark, Nottinghamshire
Ann Smithson b abt 1846/1847 Balderton, Nottinghamshire (daughter of John Smithson b abt 1819 Balderton, Nottinghamshire and Mary b abt 1817/1818 Caythorpe, Lincolnshire)


Baptism John Barker:
County: Nottinghamshire
Place: Balderton
Church name: St Giles
Register type: Transcript
Baptism date: 24 Feb 1883
Birth date: 6 Jan 1869
Person forename: John
Person sex: M
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BARKER
Mother forename: Ann


regards, Sylvia
nicnben
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: dimanche 4 septembre 2016 20:04


Inscrit le: 27/02/2011
Messages: 74
Hi Sylvia

Thank you for your answer

John Barker's birthday comes from his military file showing that he "Attains age of 55 on 12-11-22". That's why i think his date of birth is 12/11/1867

Also i worked in the past with census and i found they are sometimes inaccurate.

I agree with you for date of marriage with Catherine Doherty who was christened in a catholic church on 03/04/1870.

Children : OK. I am going to send you in private message the militia attestation of John Barker. All the children are mentioned and they are the same as the one you have, meaning we have the right John Barker.

Concerning John's father Samuel, I got the marriage transcription from findmypast and I have the same date as yours.

So the only problem is with John's birth date. The only way to solve the problem seems to spend a bit if money and order the two birth certificates from the GRO. What do you think ?

Thank you again for your interest in the Barker family. Barker is my wife's family and genealogy in England is much more difficult than in France where everything is free.

Kind regards

Francois Thumb Up

Genealogie49
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: dimanche 4 septembre 2016 20:54


Inscrit le: 06/04/2016
Messages: 90
Hi Francois,

Personally I would have ordered the Irish marriage certificate first as this might have the age and the fathers of the bride and groom listed.
Apparently, you can order an official certificate for 20 Euros (+ 2Euros postage) or a photocopy for “only” 4 Euros
( see: [url]http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do[/url] )
You’ll need the Group Registration id:
Party 1 Name JOHN BARKER
Party 2 Name CATHERINE DOHERTY
Date of Event 11 May 1890
Group Registration ID 2537037
SR District/Reg Area Tipperary
(NB I've never ordered an Irish certificate, so I don't have any personal experiences to share. I do think that it is strange that you can't email the form for the photocopy)

And yes, British Commonwealth certificates are so expensive. I do a lot of international research but mainly American, Australian and Dutch. The Dutch certificates are nearly always freely available … (and thanks to Napoleon the same layout as your French ones), but the Australian certificates are very expensive as well.


I agree that census data can vary a bit, but in this case it seems to be fairly consistent.
What I don’t understand … you mentioned that he died in 1920. How can he “"Attain age of 55 on 12-11-22" as he did not have any more birthdays after 1920? Something isn’t correct here …!


Sylvia
nicnben
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: mardi 6 septembre 2016 08:04


Inscrit le: 27/02/2011
Messages: 74
Hi Sylvia

Thank you for all the informations you gave me

I al going to follow your advice and order the marriage certificate in Ireland

Regards

Francois
Genealogie49
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: mardi 6 septembre 2016 10:00


Inscrit le: 06/04/2016
Messages: 90
Today I had a look at abt 17 pages of John’s army records .
In my eyes it is very suspicious that he declared that he was “18 years and 1 month” when he enlisted in Dec 1885! Like so many other young boys, I suspect that he might have lied about his age so he could become a “real” soldier? (“16 years and 11 months” would have meant that maybe he could have joined as e.g. a drummer, but would have been paid considerably less). When WW1 comes along, he would have had to continue the lie when he re-enlists. His death certificate might contain the truth.


==>
All his army records indicate that he was born at the end of 1867, while all of his civilian records seem to support that he was born early 1869.

Sylvia
Genealogie49
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: mercredi 7 septembre 2016 16:15


Inscrit le: 06/04/2016
Messages: 90

Hi Francois,
Good news, this week Ireland has been very nice by placing images of their Birth/Marriage/Death registrations online, so you will not have to pay for them anymore bravo :

1890 Marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10701/5901251

1890 birth John
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02373/1886064


1893 birth Leonard
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02287/1858714

Sylvia
nicnben
Famille BARKER
Envoyé le: mardi 13 septembre 2016 07:28


Inscrit le: 27/02/2011
Messages: 74
Thank you Sylvia

i'll have a look at all this and come back to you soon.

Rgds

Francois
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